“I couldn’t help but think about the way many of us architect our freelance lives and how these lifestyles make us more vulnerable to depression and anxiety than other people.”
Read MoreArtwork by Grace Miceli
Overshare Podcast: Sara Shelton
Overshare Podcast: Sara Shelton
Overshare is a Working Not Working event series and podcast that features honest conversations with our favorite creatives about the tough stuff we don't talk about in public often enough. As Mental Health Awareness Month comes to a close, we're sharing Episode 7, which celebrates a project that builds awareness year-round. This conversation couldn't be closer to capturing what Overshare is all about. WNW Member #103 Sara Shelton sat down with our friend Claire Wasserman, founder of Ladies Get Paid, about her brave and very necessary project We Get Depressed. Having battled depression herself, and losing her brother to it, Sara knows better than anyone the importance of starting a cause that directly tackles one of depression’s false and most dangerous calling cards: that you're alone in your depression.
You can listen to the entire conversation on our podcast, sponsored by FreshBooks. Subscribe to Overshare on iTunes, and listen to all the other Overshare episodes with any other podcasting app via our RSS feed or follow us on Spotify.
Below, you can also read our Magazine interview with Sara from January 2016, when We Get Depressed was just getting started.
Magazine Interview From January 29, 2016
"I was walking my dog, thinking about how, statistically speaking, I was walking by tons of people who get depressed. And wouldn’t it be comforting to just know who they were, so we could do a little nod, like, 'Yep, I get you.' When I got home from that walk, I bought the URL for We Get Depressed, googled 'how to build an online store,' and now here we are."
In the interview below, Sara also discusses depression's link with creativity: "We’re thinkers! We over analyze and question things and sweat all the details... I try to think of it as a package deal. Being creative means that sometimes, I’ll struggle with depression. But it also means that sometimes, I’ll get to feel funny and smart and excited to make things. I try hard to be okay with that package because, for one, I don’t have a choice - I’m stuck with myself. But also because when I’m in a good place, I really like getting to be me."
Get your t-shirt here to let others know they're not alone.
Tell us a little bit about your background. Who is Sara Shelton and how did she get here? How did you become a copywriter?
I wasn’t lucky enough to be one of those kids who knew what they wanted to be when they grew up. All I knew was that I wanted to do something creative, something I cared about, and something that I could do while wearing sneakers. After growing up in Texas, I eventually found my way to Ft Lauderdale (okay, I moved there for a dude) and finished up my degree in Communications.
When I set out to find my first real job, I immediately regretted majoring in Communications. I hadn’t learned how to DO anything. But I loved writing, so I made a list of every film company, editorial house, and ad agency within 50 miles of where I lived, and started knocking on doors. My first job was as a personal assistant at a tiny, three-person ad agency. Then I moved to what I thought was a more legit agency, only to discover that it was basically scamming people with those “Click Here and Get a Free iPod” web banners. (Sorry, everyone).
My uncle is a copywriter, so I talked to him and he said, “you’re not really working in advertising, you know.” He told me about copywriting, and about Miami Ad School. I wasn’t too thrilled about going back to school, but I decided to give it a shot. After my first quarter in ad school, I was like, “okay, I love this and I want to be really good at this.” So I put my head down and got to work.
What do you do when “Not Working”?
There’s nothing I love more than sitting in a bar with funny friends laughing about dumb shit. I’m also a big lover of comedy. I’m so fascinated by standup, although I’ve never performed it. I used to do a lot of improv, but being part of a group is a huge commitment… and agency life makes that really difficult. So now I just perform in storytelling shows from time to time. It’s not as popular of an art form, but I love it. You should check it out! I also have this really awesome pitbull named Thor who I wander around Brooklyn with quite a bit. I can be a bit of a hermit, so it’s nice that he forces me to get out of the house. I actually had the idea for We Get Depressed while I was out walking him.
What led you to start this project?
Depression has been a “thing” in my life since I was in high school. I lost my brother to suicide when I was 16, so I’ve spent years thinking about his depression, and playing out ways I could have saved him. But since then, I’ve also struggled with my own depression, so it’s always top of mind. There was a time about four years ago when I had just moved to LA and out of nowhere, I got really depressed. Like, really depressed. I remember meeting my aunt for dinner and just hoping she’d be able to tell because I was too embarrassed to bring it up. Luckily, she noticed immediately, and she and my cousin put me in touch with a professional. I got on medication for a while, and once I was feeling better, I thought a lot about how ashamed I had felt for feeling depressed. I didn’t want to inconvenience anyone with my problem, and I was honestly too exhausted to google “therapists in Santa Monica”. Keeping it a secret had been so important to me, which in hindsight felt really messed up.
So when Robin Williams died last year, I posted something on Facebook, encouraging friends to get help if they need it. The last part of it said, “And don’t think, for a second, you’re alone. There’s probably more of us than there are of them, just no one ever talks about it.” I got so many messages about that post. Friends basically saying “hey, that’s really brave of you to admit that you get depressed. Nobody knows this, but I’ve struggled with it too.” I realized admitting it wasn’t just a problem for me, but for others as well.
Then a few months ago, I was walking my dog and thinking about how, statistically speaking, I was walking by tons of people who get depressed. And wouldn’t it be comforting to just know who they were, so we could do a little nod, like, “Yep, I get you.” When I got home from that walk, I bought the URL for We Get Depressed, googled “how to build an online store,” and now here we are.
We Get Depressed directly tackles one of depression’s false calling cards, that we’re alone in our depression. Do you see that feeling of loneliness in feeling alone as the most dangerous effect of depression?
I do, and social media doesn’t help. Online, we all present ourselves as these perfect people loving every moment. Depression makes you feel like you’re the only one on the planet who’s such a mess, so you go out of your way to hide it from all your “perfect” friends. Which, I’m telling you, is absolutely exhausting. And only makes it worse.
There seems to be a general consensus that depression is particularly prevalent in creative individuals. Why do you think this is? How has your creativity helped keep depression at bay? And how has your creativity perhaps opened the door to depression?
Because we’re thinkers! We over analyze and question things and sweat all the details. Creative people have heightened emotions. Sometimes that can work to our advantage, and other times it’s the opposite. That’s just the way it is. So I try to think of it as a package deal. Being creative means that sometimes, I’ll struggle with depression. But it also means that sometimes, I’ll get to feel funny and smart and excited to make things. I try hard to be okay with that package because, for one, I don’t have a choice - I’m stuck with myself. But also because when I’m in a good place, I really like getting to be me.
What’s been the reaction since you started this project? Any unexpected effects from sharing it?
The support has been so reassuring. Not only are people buying the shirt, but they’re wearing it. I found wearing it to be a bit intimidating at first, so I’ve been really inspired by those who throw it on like it’s nothing. It makes me feel like I’m a part of something, rather than just a lone wolf trying to make a point. One thing I wasn’t expecting to happen was how many people would reach out to me, and share their personal experiences with depression. People seem to really want to open up about it. Makes sense, because it feels pretty liberating.
What are some top tips you can give to fellow WNW members who suffer from depression?
I don’t know if I’m qualified to give tips, but here are some things I wish I was better at:
- Don’t wait until it gets really bad to admit it to yourself. Talking yourself out of a dark hole fucking sucks, and the deeper you’re in it, the harder it can be to motivate yourself to start crawling out of it.
- Make mental notes of what triggers your depression, so you can (try to) limit those things.
- When things are good, note the things that make you feel joy, and make those things a priority in your life.
- Don’t give up, you’re doing the best you can and that’s good enough. Don’t be so hard on yourself.
- Tell someone. (Maybe someone who you know can relate because you’ve seen them wearing that shirt around.)
Who are some other WNW members whose work you admire, and why?
There are so many! I’ve always admired Brian Moore, Rahul Panchal, and Graham Douglas for each having this fearless attitude towards making ideas happen. I’m a big fan of Tommy Noonan and his new bodega project. I’m obsessed with Donnell Johnson’s writing. And nobody has a better eye than Elizabeth Dilk. Anything she lays out, I want to buy.
Are you a WNW Member with new work, exhibits, products, or news to share? Email us!
Make sure to follow us on Instagram or on Twitter, where we share more content like this.
ANXY: A BEAUTIFULLY-DESIGNED MAGAZINE ABOUT OUR INNER WORLDS
ANXY: A BEAUTIFULLY-DESIGNED MAGAZINE ABOUT OUR
INNER WORLDS
Embracing your individuality and creativity and sharing it with the world requires a lot of courage, regardless of whether it comes easily to you or not. It means you're putting time into discovering yourself. We at WNW are always thrilled to see our members address not just the highs but especially the lows that come with the territory of self-discovery. Anxy Magazine is a prime example. Anxy's founder and Creative Director, WNW Member Indhira Rojas, tells us, "Anxy is intended to be a creative and artful exploration of mental health combined with powerful personal narratives. We are looking to create a publication that allows us to dive into our inner experiences and share what’s *really* going on in our lives. Our mission is to reduce the stigma around mental health conversations and make them an integral part of our daily lives."
Anxy aims to show that there's no longer a need to expend all of your energy on internalizing your struggle. And that the curtain we use to hide anxiety is really just a thin veil that distorts the realities of it: "We want to normalize these bad feelings and share how others have navigated or are still navigating those negative and dark moments... Each issue of Anxy uses a central theme—“loneliness” or “boundaries”—to build an original, insightful, and creative perspective through interviews, personal essays, reported features, visual stories, and recommendations for what to read, watch and download to round out the conversation." In our interview below, Indhira opens up about her own experiences with anxiety, expresses why a tactile magazine is the right medium to guide this conversation, and offers some insightful and generous tips on embracing your own anxiety.
Yesterday, Anxy was featured as the Project of the Day on Kickstarter. Head over to Kickstarter to back this mission. And if you are interested in the project and want to collaborate with the Anxy team, email them here: hello@anxymag.com. They'll be looking for writers, illustrators, photographers, you name it.
Tell us a little bit about your background. Who is Indhira and how did she get here?
I’m the founder and creative director of Anxy Magazine, and principal at Redindhi Studio, a design practice focused on branding, editorial and interaction design. As a designer, I’m curious how the stories we tell each other shape our lives, influence our behavior and evoke our emotions. Most of my career I’ve been in the intersection of publishing and technology, developing visual strategies and identities that enable compelling narratives.
I’ve worked on a wide array of projects, from leading interaction and art direction at The Bold Italic, to launching the Once Magazine app and the Modern Farmer website, working on the re-branding of Atlas Obscura and designing Eric Ries' latest book The Leader’s Guide. Another transformative milestone in my career was working at Medium, where I lead the branding and creative art direction of some of our first publications such as Matter, Gone, Re:form and Backchannel.
Now, how I got here, here: I’m originally from the Dominican Republic—a Caribeña. I was fortunate to receive a scholarship that brought me to the US to complete a degree in Communication Design at Parsons School of Design in New York City. I later moved to San Francisco, CA to pursue a Masters in Design at California College of the Arts, which allowed me to transition into tech.
What is Anxy, and what led you to start it?
Anxy is intended to be a creative and artful exploration of mental health combined with powerful personal narratives. We are looking to create a publication that allows us to dive into our inner experiences and share what’s *really* going on in our lives. Our mission is to reduce the stigma around mental health conversations and make them an integral part of our daily lives.
I decided to start the magazine because I found myself in the middle of a rough time, dealing with a lot of grief and anger from doing my own therapy work and just feeling like — wait, I can’t be the only one. Why is it so hard to reach out to someone and say: “I’m feeling this huge void in my chest right now, and I know it’s sadness, and I don’t know what to do with it. Have you ever felt that way?” It’s like, unless there’s a death in the family, where there’s permission to grieve, we don’t allow ourselves to have those raw conversations and talk about some really dark feelings and experiences. We are all working so hard to make each other believe we have our shit together. Um. We don’t. Let’s get real.
I wanted to hear about other people’s experiences and how they have navigated them —what they do with the things that arise, how it has influenced their work, their everyday lives. I also wanted to bring together the psychology concepts that can bring language to what sometimes is so hard to describe and pinpoint.
Unless there’s a death in the family, where there’s permission to grieve, we don’t allow ourselves to have those raw conversations and talk about some really dark feelings and experiences. We are all working so hard to make each other believe we have our shit together. Um. We don’t. Let’s get real.
How did you decide on the format of Anxy? How does a serial publication better enable a conversation into anxiety?
For Anxy, we decided on a bi-annual publication, in which each issue is based on a theme, such as “loneliness” or “boundaries,” because we wanted to create a tactile collection of conversations. That way we can dive deep into a specific topic and create a complete volume of original, insightful, and creative perspectives. So much online content gets lost in the vortex. If you don’t click on the link from that email or feed—wooosshh—the story disappears forever (or until your Google it, if you ever do). And even when you do read it, even if you ‘save it’ … it still gets lost in some kind of digital archive.
We are looking to share these themes and stories through interviews with folks we admire, personal essays, reported features, and visual stories. We hope it will be content people can come back to for months to come, the way you do with a good book—you read it in stages and sometimes more than once.
The advantage of a serial publication, as opposed to a podcast or blog, is getting to experience content on a printed (tactile) page. It enables the juxtaposition of words and images in a way that connects to your senses differently. If done artfully and with an appreciation for beautiful design, Anxy can hopefully go beyond what’s currently in the market covering these topics.
The advantage of a serial publication, as opposed to a podcast or blog, is getting to experience content on a printed (tactile) page. It enables the juxtaposition of words and images in a way that connects to your senses differently.
In what ways are you applying your experience as a UX and visual designer to the magazine?
I’m applying my experience in some ways that are a bit more obvious, mainly understanding our audience and the need we are looking to fill, and creating the conceptual framework and visual direction of the magazine — from the branding of the publication to the tone of our video, website, and all the promotional materials.
Other aspects that have really come in handy, which are less visible, are putting into practice the strategy and project management skills that I’ve learned through ‘shipping’ things. This is the first time I’ve created a Kickstarter campaign. There are a lot of pieces that have to come together—it’s been quite the journey.
Anxy Mag has the potential to combat the misconception that you’re alone in facing anxiety. Do you see that feeling of loneliness in feeling alone as the most dangerous effect of anxiety and depression?
For me, the most dangerous effects of anxiety, depression, and numerous other mental illnesses, is not wanting to be alive anymore. It can start with a devastating feeling of loneliness and grow to feeling totally invisible and misunderstood. Feeling that no one could ever understand how we feel, because how could they? They are not the ones in this body, with these experiences, dealing with these thoughts.
The misconception we want to tackle is not just that you are not alone, it’s also that trauma is so much more common than we care to admit to each other. We dare claim that it’s a rite of passage in life. At some point, we will experience something difficult in some form or another. Big or small, individual or collective, it’s probably going to happen. And it’s understandable that you may feel buried by it. We want to normalize these bad feelings and share how others have navigated or are still navigating those negative and dark moments.
There seems to be a general consensus that anxiety and depression are particularly prevalent in creative individuals. Why do you think this is?
I’m one of those folks who believes all humans are creative, not just us labelled ‘creative people’. But, putting that aside, us “creatives” generally tend to feel more comfortable in the realm of expression and making. It becomes the way we channel our inner experiences. When making is the channel, our emotions related to our anxiety and depression comes through and becomes more visible (both in the work and how we carry ourselves), especially if what we make is publicly consumed. For others, non-labelled creatives, anxiety and depression are probably just as prevalent, it’s just channelled in ways we are not as aware of.
At times it can feel very rewarding to feel connected and make. Other times, you realize that a busy mind, not being able to think about other things but the problem at hand, is really a mind that cannot think about negative or dark thoughts. Creativity can be that double-edged sword.
How has your creativity helped keep anxiety at bay? And how has your creativity perhaps opened the door to anxiety or depression?
The way my creativity has kept anxiety and depression at bay (which has been a sad revelation, even in its comfort) is that it’s a great tool for distraction, sometimes dissociation. I’ve noticed for me, I get into problem-solving mode or into a flow and then everything else disappears. At times it can feel very rewarding to feel connected and make. Other times, you realize that a busy mind, not being able to think about other things but the problem at hand, is really a mind that cannot think about negative or dark thoughts. Creativity can be that double-edged sword.
The aspect of creativity that can open the door for anxiety and depression is when we lose track of what we are making and start judging ourselves. We can sometimes be very harsh. Whether it’s ‘this is not good enough,’ which can turn into ‘I’m not good enough,’ or ‘why can’t I be this or that?’ It just opens the door for that inner critic and puts you in a real rut.
'Mathographics' poster. Design contribution to Anxy Kickstarter campaign by design visionary & WNW Member GMUNK.
What are some top tips you can give to fellow WNW members who struggle with anxiety, or are close to someone who struggles with anxiety?
Huge question. I will talk about things that have worked for me. But I don’t think it works for everyone. As we all manage things differently.
If you have become aware enough about your current state to realize something is off and you are tired of being tired, look for support: a professional therapist, a group, a friend who can really hold your experience. Talking to a professional therapist saved my life.
Meditation has been really helpful for me, mainly because it has helped me become an observer of my inner dialog and realize that thoughts are not reality, they are just thoughts—we just tend to believe everything we think. That can be un-learned.
For those who are close to someone who struggles with anxiety (and they are not in a state of self-harm), I would say, just be present for them when you are with them. Be a steady presence in their lives so that they can feel safe and supported when they are with you. Listen to them. Pay attention without judgement, and most importantly without trying to solve their problem (this is really really hard!).
Anxy Magazine Assistant Editor Katie MacBride (far left) with Founder Indhira Rojas in the studio with Editor-in-Chief Jennifer Maerz, and Editor-at-Large Bobbie Johnson (right). Photo by Michelle Le.
The team you’ve assembled is stacked with so many talented individuals. How did you pitch Anxy as an endeavor worth joining?
Anxy has been a labor of love for everyone involved. I feel so lucky to count on such an awesome team of talented folks. To be honest, pitching Anxy didn’t require heavy lifting. Everyone involved has dabbled with therapy in some way, and feels the same need I feel—a desire to connect with others around our issues and stop with all this pretending. We can see people are craving open discussions about coping with anxiety, depression, fear, anger, trauma, shame, and all those things can change the direction of our work and our lives.
Anxy Magazine Senior Editor Madison Kahnin the studio with Editor-at-Large Bobbie Johnson. Photo by Michelle Le.
Anxy Magazine Founder Indhira Rojas (left) at Redindhi Studio in conversation with design team. Photo by Michelle Le.
This is the right time to have this conversation. Other publishers are beginning to broach the topic, and many public figures have come forward with personal revelations about mental health. Actor Kristen Bell wrote about her struggles with depression and anxiety; comedian and podcaster Marc Maron has made a career out of talking about complex emotional issues with his creative peers.
We feel a real revolution taking place around normalizing mental health outside the medical arena. It felt like an opportunity ready for the taking and so they jumped on it with me. :)
Anxy Magazine Founder Indhira Rojas (center) at Redindhi Studio in conversation with design team. Photo by Michelle Le.
How can WNW Members get involved in helping Anxy Mag and its mission?
There are many ways to get involved in helping Anxy — the most urgent is supporting our Kickstarter so we can make this project a reality! The second best way, specially for WNW’s huge community of creative professionals, is to become a contributor. If you are interested in the project and want to collaborate with us, please reach out to us at: hello@anxymag.com. We will be looking for writers, illustrators, photographers, you name it!
Anything else you’d like to add?
Please join our community and help spread the word. We are slowly ramping up our social media, but we would love to have you follow along in your journey!
Instagram, Facebook, Twitter.