Keep the Apocalypse ​​​​​​​Confined to Your Idling Computer

Your Mac screensaver features pristine images of mountaintops, golden fields, ocean life, and polar bears. It's intended to show the world's beauty. But it could quickly become an obsolete and depressing reminder of how the world used to look.

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Josh Cohen's Design Chops Inform His Unique Exploration Into Video

One of the coolest parts of WNW Member Josh Cohen's portfolio is on display in the project credits. The man is wearing a lot of hats. Director, writer, editor, designer, art director, producer. "It’s a special feeling and privilege, being able to have a vision, and have the end product be just that or something really close to it."

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What It Takes to Work at Work & Co: Meet Co-Founder Joe Stewart

Work & Co's Founder and Design Partner Joe Stewart tells us how Work & Co was born from wanting to get his design hands dirty again, and the internal trust that exists with having agency leadership learning and building alongside you. Joe also offers great advice on what it takes to work there, as well as what he looks for in prospective hires and their creative portfolios.

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Creative Mark Moll Reminds the Industry that Ideas Know No Age

Creative Mark Moll Reminds the Industry that Ideas Know No Age

MIKE O'DONNELL / EDITOR

WNW Member Mark Moll has been in the advertising industry for over 20 years, which is long enough to notice a lot of its positive and negative trends. One particular subject perhaps became even more apparent with each year Mark got under his belt, and that's the deep-seeded role that ageism plays in the behind-the-scenes of advertising. Mark's latest project "Ideas Know No Age" aims to put the emphasis back on the ideas that drive the industry, not the chronological ages of their creators.

It's ideas that first lead the 51-year-old creative director into this industry and what continues to keep him invested in it. "What I like most about what we do is ideas that stop people and ask them to engage. Sure it has to connect emotionally, but now I think people just want to see interesting things in the world they can participate in. That’s what gets me going as a human being first and a creative second. Good ideas just make life more fun."

In our interview below, Mark tells us why sharing his own age was an important element of this project, whether he thinks lists of the "30 Under 30" and "Young Guns" can exist without being detrimental to the way older creatives are perceived, and what experienced creatives should do to become even more indispensable: "Whatever age you are, you should be curious about everything in the world we use to communicate. This is your livelihood so please stay in the know... Also, ideas aren’t about the tech, but they can help us amplify or distribute them. Everything still needs an idea first and that’s what anyone at any age should stress through their work."


Tell us a little bit about your creative background. Who is Mark Moll and how did he get here? 

I’ve been in the business over 20 years. Have seen it evolve from the days of print, radio, and broadcast to one where everything in the world is fair game to use in our communications. Digital sure, but I honestly think experiential is the most exciting. What I like most about what we do is ideas that stop people and ask them to engage. Sure it has to connect emotionally, but now I think people just want to see interesting things in the world they can participate in. That’s what gets me going as a human being first and a creative second. Good ideas just make life more fun. That’s what’s cool about what we do and why I like doing it.

 

What lead you to create “Ideas Know No Age”, and what is its primary message? 

Good question - The first is obvious - my age. I’m 51 and will be 52 in July. I have no problem saying how old I am. Maybe it’s because I look like I’m 44. Ha. Also maybe it’s because age is something no one talks about. I’m proud of it. I also can’t do anything about it. No one can.

The primary message is that age doesn’t matter one bit in the creation of ideas. They say advertising is a young person’s business and that they know about the latest tech and that makes them more in tune. Blah Blah Blah. Advertising is for the curious no matter what age you are. My idea was to use great accomplishments that are great on their own regardless of how old the person was when they did it. The age of the person just makes them stand out more.

Ideas Know No Age does a great job of addressing troubling industry trends with a campaign that focuses on great work. Was that a tough balance for you, to address this negativity with positivity?

Thanks for those kind words. Maybe I was just trying to state a fact. Not purposely using positivity, just showing how misguided focusing on age is. A friend of mine just told me that a designer at Apple is 81. That’s great. And the ideas I highlight show that age is a non-factor. And just to state this for no other reason than this thought just came to me - this is not an anti-young campaign. Everyone highlights those feats. "They founded a billion-dollar company at the age of 9", etc. This approach is just proving that older people don’t stop thinking just because they hit the age when someone might hand them an “Over the Hill” balloon for their birthday. 

 

Can you share some of the other challenges and breakthroughs that came with this project? 

Well I’ve been thinking about this for a while and it was gonna be an Old Guns type of ad competition that was only open to people 50 plus and they had to solve something just using a billboard, but I didn’t know how to pull that off. That evolved into something cleaner with just a simple message. Breakthroughs? Well a lot of people I didn’t know reached out and said thanks. One called it brave. That was kind, but I was just being honest, not brave. Ted Royer was nice enough to share it. Nice guy, meant a lot.

One person had an interesting comment - he said everyone will have to deal with ageism sooner or later. Which is very true. This isn’t just reserved for older creatives, everyone else will join in soon enough.

Do you think that with the “age of information,” there’s a perception that the value of an individual’s wisdom and experience has been diminished? Or is it more just financially motivated to hire the younger creative with a lower day rate?

I hadn’t put those two together, but you may be right. But everyone has their own experience and knowledge and that’s what people ultimately want on a project. Interesting individual perspectives make us who we are. The lower rate is an argument I’ve heard and even had a conversation about this with someone my age. My counter to that is where is it written down that just because we have experience do we automatically get paid more. That’s false thinking. We should be paid on what people think we are worth and what’s in the budget. And we should be open to negotiating that. I look at every opportunity first and the pay second. Not the other way around. Why older creatives or anyone older in this business think they are entitled to a certain salary might be part of this perception problem. Older creatives demand more compensation and that’s not right either. There has to be a balance.

 

At what age did you first start noticing ageism in the ad industry, either firsthand or toward others?

I haven’t really noticed anything directly. Seriously. It has just always been part of the ad industry in thought and lore. I have heard from a friend who is much older than me and still works a lot that there is an unspoken element to their conversations with recruiters. Actually, now that I think about it, I do get a little worried when recruiters ask for my birthday to book a flight to go visit an agency. So maybe it’s there and I didn’t realize it. Ageism is a society thing and as more and more people enter the second stage of life and stay active, it will remain a topic. 

Do you see a lot of ageism in ads themselves? Or do you feel that it is more of a behind-the-scenes problem? 

I think it’s more of a behind-the-scenes problem. Maybe more of a focus on the shiny penny around young creatives and the hot new campaign they just completed. But that’s BS too because anyone feels the heat when they do something cool that people like. It’s been interesting to see the reaction to “Ideas Know No Age.” Someone actually asked me if I was gonna say my age when I did it. That was the whole point. The other thing I should mention is a lot of older people have risen the ranks and have their names on the door or the big title. So maybe there’s a perception that if you’re not that then you must not be good or haven’t done great work. Both of which are completely false. Everyone finds their place in this business.

 

What advice can you offer to older creatives who are constantly battling this lazy notion that if you’re older, your ideas won’t be as fresh?

Prove them wrong. Stop listening. And prove them wrong again. Whatever age you are, you should be curious about everything in the world we use to communicate. This is your livelihood so please stay in the know. And learn how to be fast on the computer and be able to share ideas within hours. Things zip along and everyone has to keep up. Also, ideas aren’t about the tech, but they can help us amplify or distribute them. Everything still needs an idea first and that’s what anyone at any age should stress through their work.

Ageism takes up a much smaller space in public discourse compared to other -isms. Why do you think that is? And what’s been the response to this project thus far?

No reason really, maybe it’s just that we needed to tackle the other ones first. They should all have equal weight or their day in the sun, but that’s more about what happens in the universe as things come into focus. Both online and in life events. It’s important, but maybe it’s more up to the individual to be strong and make their own case. I mean, AARP is an advocate for older folks, maybe they will tackle ageism on a big scale one day. The response has been unexpectedly awesome. I had hoped it would strike a chord, but it went much deeper than that. Maybe it was because I put myself out there and called out my own age. Being from a person and not an organization could have made it more relatable. Just spitballing here.

 

Do you think there’s a way for honors like the “30 Under 30” and “Young Guns” to exist without being detrimental to the way older creatives are perceived?

I wish there was, but their very nature makes that hard. But it’s not just in our industry. Pro athletes experience ageism. Of course Hollywood deals with it. And so on. To me, the only way to even it out is to have places that celebrate it. 50 over 50 lists. Old Guns. Etc.

What do you do when Not Working?

Hang out with my family. Watch Red Sox games. Run. Play with my cats. Watch the latest show and try to catch up on one I missed. Golf. Watch Red Sox games.

 

Who are some other “Old Guns” on WNW whose work you admire and why?

I don’t know anyone’s age so I don’t know if they are old guns, but I know a lot of creatives and admire anyone who can keep a career in this insane business going.

 

Anything else you’d like to add?

I appreciate the opportunity to shed a little light on the subject of ageism. Hopefully, this campaign will open some eyes and help older creatives be perceived differently. To be honest, if it helped one person not be ashamed of how old they are then it was successful.


Are you a WNW Member with new work, exhibits, products, or news to share? Email us!


THE ALL-SEEING TRUMP'S CREATORS WILL SHOW YOU AMERICA'S FUTURE

The All-Seeing Trump's Creators Will Show You America's Future

MIKE O'DONNELL / EDITOR

Plenty of WNW Members have found really creative ways to get involved in tomorrow's election, putting in the hours on their own time with money out of their own pockets. No project better sums up this socially and politically charged artistry and workmanship than The All-Seeing Trump. With a nostalgic nod to the 1988 film Big, in which a wish-making machine named Zoltar morphs a kid into Tom Hanks, the All-Seeing Trump machine comedically looks into the future and offers 30 terrifying misfortunes scheduled for when he's elected into the White House. The concept is inarguably genius, matched only by its execution. 

Below we talk to WNW Members Jon BarcoAndy DaoBryan Denman and Nathaniel Lawlor, who together created the All-Seeing Trump. They tell us how the idea was born and why the attention to detail was essential for the intended effect: "From the tiny hands (with one making Trump’s signature 'OK' sign), to the evil glowing eyes, to the 'receive your misfortune' plaque around the ticket outlet, every tiny detail was critical...They’re what separates good execution from great execution, in any medium." The creators also go into the process of balancing humor and discomfort, and how the latter can be an especially effective tool. "It was a lot of trial and error to find the sweet spot where we can entertain and make people laugh, but also stick them with a really dark insight that makes them a little uncomfortable."

You can expect to see the All-Seeing Trump tomorrow outside of Trump Towers, and possibly appearing on NowThis’s Election Day Livestream. After that, the machine will travel to the Joshua Liner Gallery for the final week of their Trump-themed show, which concludes on November 12.

Oh yeah, GO VOTE!


When did you first realize the equally comedic and terrifying potential of a Donald Trump and Zoltar union?

Independently, we had started thinking of what we could do to speak out against Trump, how to put our specific skills to use, and we had a few different creative ideas. But this one rose to the top, because it seemed the most conceptual and potentially viral, because of the nostalgic connection to the film Big. And honestly, there were some misgivings in the early stages of concepting. Was the idea clever enough? Did it make its point clearly? But that's common with creative ideas; you have to work them a bit, and spend quality time pressure testing them. 

Can you give us a little insight into the process from there? Who built this highly-detailed machine? What were some of the specifics that you were adamant about seeing? 

The machine was fabricated by Characters Unlimited, the company that makes Zoltar and other fortune-teller machines you see at places like Coney Island and Fisherman’s Wharf. We initially spoke to some other production companies, but for authenticity, which was highly important to us, we decided it would be best to start with the people who already make these. Why fake it when you can have the real deal? We see this a lot in our industry, like when directors will use a Red camera and then affect the footage in post to make it look like a VHS camcorder from the 80s. And it never does! We're much more of a fan of just using an actual camcorder from the 80s. So we used Characters Unlimited, and we may have been the most particular customers they’ve ever had. From the tiny hands (with one making Trump’s signature “OK” sign), to the evil glowing eyes, to the “receive your misfortune” plaque around the ticket outlet, every tiny detail was critical. We hired our own sculptor to sculpt the head, and lots of other specialists and friends for all the other details: the custom human hair wig, the SFX paintjob on the face, the handmade curtains and tiny MAGA hat, the hand-painted lettering on the cabinet. We could go on and on about the details. Details are so important, they’re what separates good execution from great execution, in any medium.

There are 30 ‘misfortunes’ in total and the set-list can be customized depending on the location we’re in. For example in front of Planned Parenthood we played a lot of misfortunes having to do with women’s issues and Supreme Court nominations and ‘disgusting dogs.’

How many pre-recorded answers are housed inside of the All-Seeing Trump? Was it fun coming up with them? Any surprises or challenges?

There are 30 “misfortunes” in total and the set-list can be customized depending on the location we’re in. For example in front of Planned Parenthood we played a lot of misfortunes having to do with women’s issues and Supreme Court nominations and “disgusting dogs.” Writing them took quite a while, with many drafts and rounds of revisions, just like writing anything else. We watched WAY too much Trump footage in order to learn his cadence, his rambling manner of speaking, and his (very limited) vocabulary. It was a lot of trial and error to find the sweet spot where we can entertain and make people laugh, but also stick them with a really dark insight that makes them a little uncomfortable. Everyone laughs when Trump says, “I build the best deportation trains, I really do.” But then they wince when he follows it up with, “My trains are so much better than the ones the Germans used.” Making people uncomfortable was always part of the goal. It’s a really powerful tool that we can almost never use in the commercial world.

Obviously this was a great idea with equally impressive execution. But did you expect the amount of media coverage that the All-Seeing Trump ultimately received?

We spent so much time and put so much love into the idea, our ultimate fear was that we’d put it out into the world, and then… nothing. It would just fizzle out. But in reality we expected at least something would happen. And we got lucky. A journalist was walking to get coffee past our very first location, and she immediately wrote up the story for Gothamist. From there, it escalated, and by the next morning, we were getting press requests from tons of outlets, big and small. So the makeshift PR plan we had in place actually got usurped organically, which was great. We didn’t have to do much PR work in the end.

Even the Trump fans got a kick out of it. Most of our time has been spent in friendly territory, and if we learned one thing, it’s that Manhattan really hates Trump. What a bizarro world when rural America gets behind a rich city slicker, and the city he’s from can’t stand him.

Any surprising reactions? Any angry reactions? Did you worry that someone might try to assault the machine?

We definitely worried about angry people trying to assault the machine, especially when we took it to a Trump rally in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. We actually hired two bodyguards to stand next to the machine, dressed as Secret Service. But ultimately even the Trump fans got a kick out of it. Most of our time has been spent in friendly territory, and if we learned one thing, it’s that Manhattan really hates Trump. What a bizarro world when rural America gets behind a rich city slicker, and the city he’s from can’t stand him. 

 

What are the most important messages that you want to send with this project?

The All-Seeing Trump pretty much speaks for itself—a future with a President Trump is a bleak future. Initially, the little fortune tickets that pop out were going to act like an end card on a TV spot, reading “There’s No Future In Trump. Vote, Volunteer, Spread the word.” But then we realized that was our advertising training getting in the way. We asked ourselves, what would Banksy do? And the answer was obvious: Keep the experience dark all the way through. Don’t talk down to your audience. People will draw their own conclusions. That’s how we landed on putting “misfortunes” on the tickets, too. From that point on, the whole idea really gelled.

Have you ever dabbled in guerrilla art or politically-charged work before? 

Yes, members of our group created Occupy George to highlight wealth distribution inequality, Good Day Blimp, which raised money for Ice Cube’s charity, and a few other projects as well. 

 

Will the All-Seeing Trump be making any appearances on Election Day?

Yes, we’ll be out, probably at Trump Towers, and possibly appearing on NowThis’s Election Day Livestream. After that it’ll go to the Joshua Liner Gallery for the final week of their Trump-themed show, which ends on November 12.

 

What’s next for you all?

All four of us are back freelancing, with no immediate plans for the next idea. This project was a ton of work, but it was really fun and it definitely made us want to work more on our own projects, so we’ll see what happens. Let’s just get through this god-awful election first.

 

Anything else you’d like to add?

We’re lucky to work in an industry with so many smart, talented people all around us. We called in many favors and so many people stepped up to help us. Heard City, Cosmo Street Editing, and Future Perfect Music each volunteered their resources, rallying behind the idea and the cause. And so many others, from producers to business affairs to PR. The project really made us think, if we spent half the effort we spend selling soda and cellphones and cars on our own creative endeavors, we could make a lot of really cool stuff.


Are you a WNW Member with new work, exhibits, products, or news to share? Email us!